Is Dark Souls TOO HARD? - #62

Dude Soup: Is Dark Souls TOO HARD? - #62

Yeah. It's probably too hard. But we're just normcore scrub casuals who need BradyGames Guides to help cheat and win. We've never played a REAL game like Dark Souls before, so we can't possibly appreciate its punishing gameplay, or punishing gray visuals, or punishing online fan community. Nope. Not us. We're just little baby boys who only play mobile games and don't have the rich depth of experience to tell us what's good and what's Dark Souls.

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Comments (40)

  • BrandonK FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    8 months ago

    Listening to them talk about sonic porn after Pal shut down really hurts my heart boner.

  • zgillet FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    9 months ago

    As long as Trophies/Achievements are actually difficult to get who cares what modes there are.

    • zgillet FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      9 months ago

      One more thing, every die hard Dark Souls player's first playthrough has no help... because it is really early. I purposely avoided japanese hints too.

  • APrecursor FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    Normally I would say an artist should just let their art be their art but a developer needs to sell their art to keep making art so if they need to make smaller boobs to make more money you get that paycheck Tyrese.

  • Mutual FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold WRYYYYY

    1 year ago

    Would it be possible to play less dialogue based games in the background for Dude Soup and podcasts in general? Having games that you just jump in and play would be so much better than these story games. It might not be a big deal, but it gets annoying hearing overlapping dialogue.

    • SirLarr FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 year ago

      Yeah... that was a mistake. Won't do it again.

    • Mutual FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold WRYYYYY

      1 year ago

      Thanks a lot! It wasn't a major gripe or anything, no worries, but I feel it would definitely improve the final product.

  • Otter343 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I think that having a game be more accessible will never be a bad thing. Not everybody has the time to sit down and spend hours on a video game every night. Having the option to change the difficulty can make it easier for people who want a more casual experience to still play through the story firsthand and have fun. It's frustrating when you get to a part you can't beat and become stuck. At that point there's really no option but to start over or quit. To know that I can potentially play through a whole game without ever reaching that point helps me relax with a game and enjoy it more.

    • zyonchaos FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 year ago

      I agree, I had a similar discussion with my son who has a hell of a lot more free time to play games than I do because life gets in the way lol. I will admit that he is turning into the better gamer, but that will only last as long as I let him play. If I played for the amount of time he does then I would be the better gamer, but as much as I like games like Skyrim, GTA 5 and other big sandbox style games at the moment I need something that I can pause, save and pick up for an hour or two every now and then. So for me I like the easy modes as I can take the more casual approach to a game and enjoy it more.

  • SarahWithStars FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold No Family Bias- Honest

    1 year ago

    I think people should be able to get whatever experience they want! "Cheated or not" , "earnt rewards or just knowledge through observed rewards"


    I remember Lord of the Rings Return of the King on Xbox original: you unlock all the cheats once you complete one route to the end of the game (path of the wizard, path of the kind or path of the hobbit) and I couldn't for the life of me work out the 'Bane' achievements. So I went back to beginning with invincibility and infinite ammo to work out the banes so I could then play properly on harder difficulties.


    Using cheats was my only access to harder difficulties because it was the only way I could master the more complex combos required to survive.


    Is that cheating?

    Or simply using all facilities at my disposal to enjoy harder gameplay?

    And is that better or worse than watching techniques of others on YouTube?

  • Dashwsk FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    IDDQD - If you don't want to use it, don't use it. They didn't put that in there for you.

  • nicolegend FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold dangereqsue

    1 year ago

    lawrence have you played "the beginner's guide"? i feel like you'd enjoy the discussion of games as art / games as a creation for others vs oneself.

  • Draginator FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I like the invincible in the game because it means it is a game that me and my dad can share. He isn't really good at games but can enjoy them, and I feel like he would really like that feature to avoid frustration.

  • Matt317 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold the guy

    1 year ago

    By the way, I distinctly remember wanting Soap shoes simply because they were in Sonic Adventures 2. My impulse at the time was that "I want to be like Sonic".


    Yeah I was 12.

  • GeorgePillyforth FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    Awesome, i was hoping for some underwear ads. Wanted to try out me undies tho

  • AlwaysOnline

    1 year ago

    This was touched on a little, but there is a debate about when an author's input doesn't matter anymore. PBS Idea channel covers this in this video.

  • Matt317 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold the guy

    1 year ago

    That was a brilliant commentary on the sad state of Sonic and how he's become what he is today. :P

  • HarrisonFoun FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    Like all things, difficulty in a game is dependent on the design choices for why it's difficult. Some games have difficulties just because it's easy to double damage and halve health or add lots of enemies or go the other way, and then there are games like Dark Souls where the difficulty is designed into the game in every way. The story. The pacing. The gameplay. It wouldn't be nearly as fun crawling through it where you can't die and Star Fox and a lot of games don't have designs that require them to be difficult.

  • jclark2747 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I have definitely found that Nintendo has reallllyy made their games easier. DK country on DS had a way to see how the stage was played if you failed enough, the new Pokemon EXP share just levels everything with no challenge and I saw one of the 3D mario games on DS gives you the option to be invincible to all enemies and just cruise through the level. To me it sucks, but its all choice. You could play DK without the guide, Pokemon without the EXP share and Mario without the invincibility. In the end you feel good that you never needed to use those assists to finish the game!


    Also awesome podcast guys!

  • GreyGhost9036 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Angry Beaver

    1 year ago

    I like the idea of some games having that accessibility aspect. So I have no problem with star fox doing that BUT I still feel that games should still have a good level of difficulty. I do also agree a lot of games are getting really easy and holding the gamers hand more so than prior years. Referencing the recent lets watch gavin plays hitman, I don't own the new hitman but based on what I saw and my history with past games, it does look sooo much more hand holdy. Imo half the fun was figuring out OH I can do that?!?! without the game telling me I can. I personally feel like when the tutorial mission/level finishes that should be it. Games should stop telling you what you can and cant do. While I say all of this I feel like there should be an option in games that if you absolutely want it could include a make easy mode. Similar to MGS 5 where you can suddenly make the mission easier. But at the same time "punished" you for doing that by making you wear a chicken hat. I feel like that's perfect. Either way there needs to be a balance between making an easy mode that does the job that the easy mode people want and also have that also hard mode still.
    BUt also they funhaus guys make a good point. The game devs will make the game they want. If darksouls devs want to make a game that is sooooo stupidly hard that only a small portion of gamers who buy it will actually beat it I say go for it. SO what if you never get to experience the games ending for yourself cuz you cant beat boss 1 I know I didn't and I'm still okay with my life. Every game doesn't have to focus only on me. Theres an audience who likes stupidly hard games. I know I'm like that with RTS games but not hack and slash games. Let the devs be themselves. If they want to kill you 20 times in the first 2 minutes its fine. And if they want you to breeze on by the first lord of hell while riding a pretty pink girly unicorn named Jeff then that's okay too.

  • Jin_D3vil FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold The Scotsman

    1 year ago

    I can understand the nature of all games for all people but I feel there are two points in which that can't or shouldn't be the case. The first is difficulty and mechanically made situations, from games like Darksouls that are very difficult but fair games that rewards playing and learning. The other case is games like World of Warcraft where there was content locked to larger groups and also content for a higher level of teamplay and personal skill. To a lot of people these games remove access and in a lot of ways Blizzard removed these issues with people being unable to experiance the content that was normally not available to them. To me the high end of the WoW raiding was a skill ceiling and a required element of that game. I never took part in that personally, but the fact it existed added weight and depth to the world for me and I assume a lot of people as well. The less I think there is to strive for, the lack of invidual success and notability is why MMO's lose their market very fast. Before the current building of MMO's people know others by name. Either for good or bad reasons, you had a reputation with others and it ment something in the world. In the current MMO market that doesn't exist and it makes the experance a lot less expansive as it once was.


    The other side of this argument is pandering to players, a lot of games have went down this road of making it easier. Some have pulled it off a lot better than others, but a fair number of games have altered their experiance and lost their element that made it fun. Hitman had that with Absolution where it didn't reward players for being a really good hitman and more for collectables and secondary objectives. While not the greatest example of pandering, it's the most recent of a long standing brand. It suffered for it and to a degree the newest game has clearly moved away from this to address this. But I also think it's still leaning back that way as well and is reliant too much on scripting as well. Again I'll talk about WoW, to me the game has spent far too much time pandering to people and lost a lot of the great elements that made the game fun. While it is still fun for a lot of people I think it's more to do with the fact it's still one of the few full MMO experiance games out there and they are reliable for content and so people will always play it. But the dropping of the Raids and other harder elements may have opened up more content to more people but they lost that skill ceiling. Then there's the lack of social elements that they once had, getting to know people and also have to maintain your reputation as you may suffer for poor attitude with others or just being an asshat in general. Now you can queue up and complete content without really having to talk to people or socialise at all. To the point I know a fair number who play WoW and don't even leave their garrison outside Guild raids because there's no longer a need. They can farm what they need to raid in there, in that we lost the biggest aspect of what makes MMO's fun.. The social interaction and the feeling of being in a world with people and not just jumping in and out of content without much else.


    I am all for games being open to more people and fundimentally anyone can bypass things and take shortcuts. But we need to make sure there are solid experiances with skill ceilings that allow growth and the means for people to differentiate themselves from others. Being able to stand out is a fundimental experiance in and of itself. I don't mind people watching games and seeing endings that's not the same as experiancing it yourself in my view. That's a seperate experiance and not one that can be judged under that. But a game should not destroy the experiance and the element that makes it what it is. We need to be able to say "I did this" over "I seen this", It's a validation of ourselves as a gamer and needs to remain. Without a goal or an ardious task to overcome and essentially "showoff" it makes a lot of games kind of pointless. A game that is too simple will not work and the market will feel a lot smaller for lacking these kind of games. Imagine playing a game like Grand Tourismo where you can drive anything right off the bat and play on par with someone who spent months getting there in the traditional sense. It cheapens that persons effort and destroys the impressive nature of that game, people who are fans know it's not easy and can appreciate it when they see someones footage of an impressive lap.


    To go on a point that Bruce hit on, Darksouls is a singular experiance you must complete for yourself. But as humans we must experiance it together so how could we do that? What I think is that yes, we all need to do it ourselves as the experiance we all share is a multiple perspective. The experiance of everyone trying to beat it at different points of the game. It wouldn't be exciting if everyone jumped on and completed the game at practically the same time. The experiance of seeing others do it better or differently than we would is also an aspect of that. What makes it interesting is seeing more than you ever knew or understood of that game world. If all we did was login, play and then leave the gaming culture as a whole would be far less for it. By nature we talk, share it in any form available and we experiance it all together. We enjoy seeing someone streaming a game as they play it differently. Like watching a person play and complete Elders Scrolls Oblivion in under 7 minutes. That's something a person spent a lot of time learning and is not something we all personally achieved but we got to experiance it as well. THat was an impressive thing for that person to figure out. They clearly would have enjoyed that ability to show off and see some of the comments. That's an element of the human social interaction in games. It's fine to learn how to beat things better and quicker, but someone learned to do that themselves first. It wasn't made easier for them and I think we are better for it as there is always a level of playing a game we like better than we have. We have a goal beyond just playing and completing a game and know there is a lot more to it.


    I love skill ceilings and social sides of games. I put a lot of hours in UT2004 to be semi-decent at it. I apreciate the skill of players above me and the time they spent doing that. If there wasn't much of a skill ceiling I don't think I'd have played that for as many years as I did.

  • LinkGCN123 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    Is it odd that I always get a little excited when a funhaus member mentions watching videos from someone I like to watch? I got a little excited when James mentioned that he watched Maximillion Dood.

  • DarkTempler7 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I actually do really like Sonic. The only one I didn't like was 06. Also there is an evil Sonic in the comics, he's named Scourge now and he's literally a color swap of Sonic.

  • noelmurray15

    1 year ago

    American "individualism" isn't really a thing of young people, it was an idea that rose out of segregation and the establishment of suburbs, it's much less common in millenials because as we move away from our baby boomer parents, we've grown more towards collective society. It grows out of the fact that most people born after 1980 have been shafted by the gutting of social programs, which not only makes us the LEAST entitled generation, but also one that is more willing to work in a group and be connected. Frank Luntz (Head GOP pollster) called millenials "terrifyingly liberal" and many studies show that we are in horrible debt. Not any argument, just something I thought I'd correct. (don't worry bruce I'm not coming for you here)

  • Breckenridge FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Well you know.

    1 year ago

    So, it is official. Funhaus has won me over from Achievement Hunter. Maybe it is the fact that I feel more on par with Funhaus in terms of gaming. Meaning, they're dudes that I could see myself chumming around with, cracking jokes, and discussing deep topics. This reminds me of the days in high school when I had LAN parties with friends and that is how they played out. Jokes and philosophy.


    Regardless the Funhaus guys are thoughtful, witty, and just seem down to earth. Anyway, keep up the good work.



  • meobud FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I think this was the best Casper ad read I have ever heard. If i had money I probably would've tried out Casper. Well done guys.

  • demonhaze FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    Totally agree with Bruce on that one. As you get older you see people less as people to kill time with and more as investments for the rest of your life. The hard part about it is finding ones worth that investment.

  • Jdwallace FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of death of the author.

  • farson135 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I agree that games should be inclusive and should allow lots of people to play them. I am a huge Dark Souls fan and I want more people to experience what I have. It makes me sad that people are scared of playing the game because of how difficult they think it is. And nothing annoys me more than those people who go onto topics where other players are asking for help and tell them, “git gud”.


    For the record, Dark Souls does have an easy mode. In all Dark Souls games, magic is hugely overpowered (except miracles). Easy mode is starting the game as either a pyromancer or sorcerer and concentrating on intelligence and leveling up pyromancy. Between those two spell groups you practically become a god at the highest levels. Add in Hexes from Dark Souls 2 and it gets insane. True, the game should still tough in the beginning, but many bosses become cakewalks with those two spell groups working together.


    There are a number of other ways you can make the Souls games easier. You can invite a Coop partner. There are covenants centered around helping other players. “Praise the Sun” comes from the Warriors of Sunlight covenant and when you see that message it typically means that someone successfully teamed up for some “Jolly Cooperation”. The game has built-in easy farming areas. Somewhat early in Dark Souls there is an area where you can farm 10,000 souls (which is a lot in the early game) in less than 5 minutes over and over again with minimal risk to yourself. And there are more farming areas earlier and later in the game. Virtually every boss in the game has a weakness. Look online, and you can probably find a cheap way to beat them (typically, the only exceptions are optional bosses). And on. So Dark Souls has a kind of “organic” easy mode and even a kind of an “organic” hard mode. There is a character class in each of the Souls games that make the game harder in the beginning. In Bloodborne, it is called “Waste of Skin”. The character description is, "You are nothing. Talentless. You shouldn't have been born."


    However, I will admit that an even easier mode would cheapen the story of Dark Souls to an extent. Spoilers for Dark Souls below. Also, for those well versed in the lore, I am simplifying it. There are 4 Lord’s souls. The souls of life, death, light, and a special soul called the dark soul. The dark soul was shattered and given to humanity. It is special because, under certain circumstances, it allows you to become undead. The reason the dark souls was split was to allow humanity to gain the power to defeat the gods. Without the dark soul, you die once and you are done. With the dark soul you resurrect every time you die. You use your experience to get stronger and stronger. That part of the story would be cheapened somewhat if you never died. I will also say that, to me, a part of the fun of the game is the fear of the unknown. The tension that comes from being so far away from safety with so much on the line. I remember the first time I fought Lady Maria. I beat her on my first try mostly because my dodging habits matched up with her attacks perfectly. But every one of her attacks in the second half of the fight were millimeters away from me. I won but man, the tension in that fight, and the euphoria that came afterwards was incredible.

    • Forewalker FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 year ago

      I would also like to add that i think an experience shouldn't be cheapened by making it easier for the people who arent even willing to give it a go as it is, never mind if it had an easy mode.

  • kclarkness FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I don't like this thumbnail lol Solarie is a good man and would never be that mean in his own mind!

  • good2cya FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Horse McDoomkook

    1 year ago

    Also my brother had Soap shoes at one point... he was cool.

  • good2cya FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Horse McDoomkook

    1 year ago

    The Sonic nerd within me is coming out... Amy Rose is one character.

  • hp_d0ugi3 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    i like your views on the difficulty in games, to me personally that's the biggest reason i like playing on PC, because i like to mod and overpower my character in order to just play the game without it being hard, just to see the story the developers wanted me to see.

  • JohnstonT94 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    When it comes to consumable media, and life in general, having more options to chose from is almost never a bad thing. Luckily in todays market we are starting to see more options for consumers. I don't understand how people could get upset over something like this; my ideology for this topic, and life in general is if it doesn't directly effect me or other people in a negative way, then I have no problem with it (whether or not I agree with it). In terms of videogames; other people being able to tailor an experience they pay for, so that they get more enjoyment out of it, in no way affects my experience since it is an option I can choose between too, so the more power to them.

  • uncreativekid FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Kate

    1 year ago

    Damn this podcast got philosophical for like 5 seconds and I love it. Games are definitely art and I hate it whenever someone says that any kind of art put into a shared space has to be one specific thing. Art can have multiple meanings or no deeper meaning at all! Games get so much more fun when you just play them for yourself and take what you want from them, not what other people try to push on you

  • icedRUNNER FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold ^0.0^

    1 year ago

    There's only one factor left out from the game difficulty argument: money. You see: "I spent 60, 80, 110 dollars for x game and got a y experience but now I feel that I 'wasted' my money because this other person had a z experience and that because of his z experience my y experience for x game wasn't worth the extra cool shield and skins I got by paying an extra 5 dollars in the pre-order." You see if the podcast was seen through the lenses of money all it comes down to is was the game worth to ME such and such amount? Even if the person pirated the game it will still come down to is the game worth such and such.

    The reason I say this is because in my own experience I want to play a challenge and don't mind getting stomped by a dragon's foot every single time, but sometimes I also just want to sit back and enjoy the artwork, the music, and the animation that were put in the game. I think the no death mode in the star fox game helps cater the need to just enjoy the work that was put in, many a times when you play a game for real (read:to beat or speedrun it) you miss some cool scenery or fail to appreciate the animations etc.

    All I hear from the detractors of easy mode or no death modes continues to be: "I spent 60 dollars for x game for a specific experience that I expect from the developers to give me but the justification for me spending said money is threatened because now all of a sudden someone else might get this game only to earn what I deem as a cheaper experience; then why should I pay 60 dollars for an already depreciated game?"

    I'm sure there can be others scenarios but just wanted to point out a missing piece in your arguments.

  • TheMeta88 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 year ago

    I feel weird because I've been on both sides of the Souls and Bloodborne difficulty debate.


    I was pro "easy mode" when in Dark Souls 2 there was an item that allowed you to reallocate your stat points. It was completely optional. You never had to pick the item up. If you did, you could drop it and it would vanish into the ether.


    PEOPLE HATED IT! People hated that this optional thing existed because they believed it invalidated your decisions. That decisions didn't matter and could be changed.


    My argument was, don't like it, don't use it.


    I've been anti "easy mode" when people just flat out want an easy mode in the game. They're intimidated by the difficulty and don't want to spend hours making no progress.


    I get it. If you play games for fun and/or escapism then Souls and Bloodborne to date have not been for you.


    But in my opinion, not experiencing the game as the creator intended is giving yourself the short end of the stick.


    Actually James' sex analogy is perfect. Beating Souls and Bloodborne as intended is like real sex. Doing it on "easy mode" is masturbating.


    I, and many in the Souls community, don't want people to miss out on the full experience.


    BUT! You could have sex and not think its all that great. Like James said when he beat a boss and was just like "eh."


    To many, the joy of Souls and BB is learning, exploring, and getting better at the game. We crave the feeling of overcoming challenges.


    To others...it's a pretty world, got some interesting lore...the bosses are nice.


    And I think another reason the "hardcore" crowd doesn't want concessions made because they finally feel like Souls and BB are games made FOR THEM! After years of developers dumbing video games down to appeal to EVERYONE, From Software is bringing mechanical depth, exploration, and an emphasis on player improving.


    There's also the question of how easy mode would be implemented. Currently, Souls and BB have pretty organic difficulties. The games are hard because the encounters are well thought out, the enemies have interesting movesets, and the player is constrained by resources.


    In other games, difficulty would be a slider. Normal everything is 100%. At hard enemies hit hard and are tougher by 125%. And so on and so forth. Maybe the player on max difficulty deals 75% damage and has 75% health. The opposite for easy. The player has 150% health and hits 150% hard. Enemies deal 50% reduced damage.


    How would Souls handle this? Just introduce easy mode in which the player has more health, hits harder, has more resources available, and the enemies are pushovers?


    Or would they develop and entirely different game where the enemies are not as smart, as difficult, or as interesting as the real game?


    Who knows. Honestly, I doubt it will ever happen. Miyazaki firmly believes in creating the sense of achievement so difficulty ain't going nowhere.

    • DarkTempler7 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 year ago

      Oddly enough I've started to think that the people upset about difficulty in games like this aren't the older gamers who have seen games get easier. I think it's more younger ones who maybe weren't alive when games were like that. I think that's at least the case for people who are upset with pricing and DLC.

  • stepenmorin

    1 year ago

    Is it hard enough is the question