OVERWATCH LOOT BOXES A SCAM? - Dude Soup Podcast #124

Dude Soup: OVERWATCH LOOT BOXES A SCAM? - Dude Soup Podcast #124

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Today the gang talks about Overwatch's first birthday and the controversy around the accessibility to loot as well as:
29:00 - New streaming services and chat room etiquette
45:00 - The return of Seaman!
51:45 - The upcoming Castlevania cartoon
54:10 - A beefy new episode of Hard Nettin' 


SOURCES:
[Forbes] There Are Not Enough Hours In The Day To Grind For 'Overwatch' Anniversary Skins: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/05/24/there-are-not-enough-hours-in-the-day-to-grind-for-overwatch-anniversary-skins/#762822397628
[Mixer]
https://mixer.com/
[Twitch]
Moar Cheermotes, out now! https://blog.twitch.tv/moar-cheermotes-out-now-b7644b3f6af6
[Twitter]
Yoot Saito: https://twitter.com/YootSaito/status/867735378223964160
[YouTube]
Castlevania Teaser:

HARD NETTIN: Game Girl Power - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuObd7z63vWt2oWSj-s0_EA/feed


Follow us on Twitter: 
>http://twitter.com/adamkovic
http://twitter.com/brucegreene
http://twitter.com/jameswillems
http://twitter.com/sirlarr
http://twitter.com/elysewillems

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Comments (71)

  • KiRAWRa FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold ms. obsessed

    5 months ago

    Now I'm super hype to play Seaman

  • Astarties FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Ex Nihilo

    5 months ago

    As someone who has streamed to Twitch and streams to YouTube regularly for work, I have always said that YouTube is a better platform for streaming. It's easier to adjust settings on the back-end of the channel than Twitch and it is generally more stable than Twitch. Twitch just got going first and built a fan-base way ahead of YouTube Gaming.

    • ktpage337 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      The difference is (if the streamer is at or above a certain size of viewers) with Twitch you can actually have a sense of community and have actual conversations. With YouTube, it's just a long stream of constant text. Talking in chat on YouTube is pointless basically.

    • 20miles

      5 months ago

      well any moderate sized twitch streamer will just have a chat spam emojis and one letter phrases 

  • TrashcanOfIdeology FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I lost interest in Overwatch pretty quickly because it felt like the loot boxes weren't worth the effort when i did get them.


    This hubbub makes me realize why i like the gear system in Injustice 2. i think you can pay for mother boxes if you want, but if you join a larger guild you'll be swimming in gear on a daily basis, and that includes the occasional skin. Not everything is good, but with the multiverse supplying regular boxes and your guild supplying boxes as well, plus the ability to reroll stats for gear, I'm finding myself really addicted to it. 

  • CodedThreat FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold VicariousTool

    5 months ago

    I see people saying they are entitled to stuff because it was a $60 game. Where did you pay $60 for the game? on PC it was $40 when it came out. And on console it was $50 (and that has since dropped to $30 on PC and you can find it for $30 or less on consoles). They never had it for $60, unless you are in Canada or Australia, in which case that isn't Blizzard's fault and you pay more for every game, not just this one. And imo I would choose the Overwatch model over the COD model anyday.


    I got Overwatch on PC when it came out and then again on Xbox One for cheap through gamefly, (PC for when I really want to play and Xbox when I just want to chill on the couch and play around a little less seriously) and I have only ever spent another $20 on loot boxes on each platform ($20 on PC and $20 on the Xbox), but I didn't need to do that, I wanted to. People crying because they do not want to spend money for COSMETIC items, that do not affect gameplay in anyway whatsoever, is whiny entitled baby bullshit. If you are a kid or a loser with no job, then you have the time to grind boxes out for $0. For people like me with a job, I have more money than time and will gladly pay $20 for a way to not have to play for 8 hours. Plus I make more than that $20 in 1 hour of work, and if the 1 lootbox per hour equation is right, then I am ahead on EV by buying $20 worth of loot boxes compared to grinding those out. 

  • lootsorrow FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I know I'm a few days late but I would like to submit my idea for the trending hashtag. So when a band has a song, and someone else plays their version of that song, that's called a "cover", right? So we need to get Sega to make their own version of Bruce, so there would be a "cover" version of Bruce in the game. #BruceCoveredInSeaman

  • Jrex FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gus Sponsor

    5 months ago

    ballooning intensifies 

    Masayoshi Matsumoto @SirLarr

  • Coldaman FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    With regards to Lawrence's question of "What game has a better system for cosmetic items", I prefer Rainbow 6: Siege's renown system to the Overwatch system of random drops.  For those who aren't familiar, in R6: Siege you gain an in-game currency called "renown" which can be used to unlock new operators (characters), or new skins for guns or outfits for characters.  Most players spend their renown unlocking characters for the first few dozen hours (because it does take a while to get enough renown to unlock the newer operators), but if you play the game every day you can amass enough renown to unlock a decent amount of skins.  There's no randomness to it, you just spend renown on the things you want.  Of course, there's also a way to pay real money for renown if you want to skip the grind...but why would you if you could just do the work to get there?  I dunno, I just dislike the randomness and possibility of getting duplicate items that comes with the loot box system.  Anyone else agree?

    • 20miles

      5 months ago

      Also injustice 2

  • Roman727 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Roman

    5 months ago

    listen, this all started with For Honor which is completely Pay to Win and the valid search that there is no way to grind up the gear you need to buy gear. So to copy someone poked at Overwatch when their game is purely cosmetic and it is not an apples to apple thing. 

  • DamnPeaches FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold DamnPeaches

    5 months ago

    that moment when there are more ads on RT.com than YT

  • RemyEvermore FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago


    As many of the comments in here have hit upon, currency plays a huge factor.


    The issues is that Blizzard present a payment model that does not place a monetary value on their in-game currency. It is understandable that as a business that by choosing to not assign a value to it that they hold a much firmer control over how the rest of their products/items can be valued. 

    The issue that creates for the player base though; Overwatch credits indeterminable in value - 'realistically'.

    You can know the exact credit value of a shop item, a duplicate item or a credit reward pile.

    You can not know, precisely, the time value of a credit or the real world monetary value of a credit.

    (Unless you have access to Blizzard's data... Which if you do, congrats!)


    So how does this break down?


    Skins/Emotes/Dances = Credits = Time/Money = Emotions/Experience 

    (This is nothing shocking I'm sure)


    Essentially, in lieu of exact mathematical data/info, Overwatch is just making you assign value to your emotional responses and experiences. 


    That is why this is an 'issue' and not a 'problem' -

    A credit in Overwatch is currently worth whatever each individual players assigns to it via their emotional/experience based purchases.

    You are aware that Blizzard as a business could release an exact monetary value to their in-game currency, they have chosen not to, this in turn leaves us as players to assign our own personal value to the currency. 


    Real Questions-

    *Does withholding exact values impair a players logic reasoning by forcing them to evaluate based on emotions/experiences?

    *Is it morally or ethically wrong for a business to actively disguise the monetary value of a product that players pay for? (Value of a loot box vs Value of it's contents, etc.)

    *Given what was mentioned in the video about China and Gambling- Despite some fancy Terms of Service legal talk that exists, is it fair that a game easily available for legal purchase by persons under the age of 18 also offers a form of gambling without published odds?



  • Wand0

    5 months ago

    Free to play? Overwatch is $60 in Aus. 

  • MrGavyWavy96 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold MrGavyWavy

    5 months ago

    The Irish don't love the Queen, Bruce ;)

  • DancinShroom FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Now see I like the idea of RNG loot (with buyable options) because it causes an uncertainty in getting something. Where is the fun is saying yeah ill spend $30 and get said skin?

    It gives a goal to get towards rather than a buy out. Say you buy boxes and dont get the skin, youre tempted to play more so you can get the skin before time runs out (this happened to me and blackwatch mccree). It brings in a new element of a countdown to every event. 

    And also who cares anyways if you dont get your skin? its just a skin.. more come out and most are better than the last anyways.


    Also side note: When you see someone playing with a mei new years skin at least you knew they've been around since new year and its cool to gauge how active a person is based on their choices in skins. Its like seeing someone in WoW with a armour set from vanilla and saying "shit this guy has seen some things" (also like gold weapons in qp) it shows a person's investment in a character or the timeline of the game. 

  • ASHxINFLAMES FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Thank you for a blast to the past. Though I never owned a DreamCast Sea Man did hit the school yard chatter and hearing it from word of mouth - it's one of those rare times where the hype lived up to the wierdness! 

    Also live & prosper, Spock.
    (voice of seaman)

  • WSM FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    40 seconds in: yes James it would be totally lame for a country to have two days to "remember people"... Memorial day and Veteran's Day...  smh

  • someperson73

    5 months ago

    Can someone tell me what game they're playing?

    • linkwray FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      I think it's little nightmares

  • Pjayyy FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    People are pissed because Blizzard focus on the lootbox (cashgrab) events instead of adding maps, game modes, etc. 2 maps in a year and we're supposed to be happy? Jeff says that this event is about the fans, etc. yet they hide everything behind lootboxes where you have to spend at least 100$ to get the dances for every hero. Call me entitled but I believe that something as basic as dances (which is free in every Blizzard game up to date) should be added to the base content. This event is not for the fans.... Just another cashgrab by Blizzard. People are sick of these shitty practices and they make their voice heard, why are u guys condenscending towards them?


    Also, the game is not free Adam... your argument is invalid

  • SEAtliens FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    My issue isn't having to pay but I've spent 50$ for lootboxes for events and still couldnt get any of the skins i wanted. 

    • DancinShroom FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Play the game get currency, buy the skin you want, done. 

  • MTGknifer FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold HeroOfTheStorm

    5 months ago

    S/o to Anub'arak and Samuro!

  • clickmila FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I just wish the junk-boxes didn't drop silver-silver-blue-silver in THAT ORDER every time. Just change it up so it at least feels a little bit random.

  • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I just have an issue with the system as a whole. I can spend $X00 and still not get the item i want. So I'm "forced" to play the game till I randomly get what I want or spend enough money to, again Randomly, get what i want, BUT statistically speaking, if I don't put the "full time" hrs into the game + money I might not get it. That's the issue, they want my money AND my time, The cost of the skin shouldn't be X time + $Y. I'm fine with spending $40 on a skin (#Riot) or Spending 8hrs a day for a week, but not both. (Example) I ran into the same issue during the Halloween event, playing 6 hrs a day for a week + spent $60 and i still didn't get the 1 and ONLY skin i wanted. I ended up just buying it via gold because i got enough copies and had JUST enough extra gold saved up, but with this event i didn't have that luxury and basically got nothing, in fact it even turned me off of playing the game all together because it was too daunting a task. In short, I'll pay with my time, or my money not both, and If i want to buy something they should have a non-RNG way for me to get what i want for w/e price they see fit. Again i hate the "loot box" system. #WasteOfMoney

    • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Like let me spend money on coins in addition to the current system. I'd even be ok with a $5 - 250 coins ($20 Legionaries) Giving more coins as a bonus to spending more $10 - 500 coins + Bouns 50 coins ect. Its basically the same set-up MOBA's use. Riots Model for LoL even added a "loot Box" system that's doing really well, in addition to the system I've outlined here.

  • fergotronic FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    "All the stuff you need to play is free"


    Except for the $60 dollarydoos I payed to purchase the game.

    • DancinShroom FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Welcome to the real world, where you buy stuff that you want. You invest in overwatch, and you get all dlc. Thats the marketing strategy they chose. 

      Also thats a super nitpicky quote to choose. These guys are on a podcast you should at least understand what their general point is not pick out some random line said off the top of their heads and bash it.

    • fergotronic FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      It may be one line, but it's one line repeated over and over.

      And I have no problem with the marketing strategy, you are completely putting words in my mouth.

  • DizzyTiger FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    My problem with the lootboxes, and this has always been my problem with them. Is that I can't just buy coins. I have to buy lootboxes, for the chance of getting enough coins to buy the skins that I actually want. Of course there's always the small chance that I could get the skins that I want from the lootboxes, but that's a very slim chance if I'm a casual player. It seems to me Overwatch doesn't want any casual players to enjoy their premium content. Meaning I can't have interest in other games and occasionally come back to Overwatch when new things come out because those new things interest me. Sure new maps, new heroes are all free. But if I come back because I want a new skin, fuck me. 


    PS, it takes them months to release a new hero and the best they could come up with was Orisa. She's fine for personality I guess, but her kit is the least interesting thing I think I've ever played. 

  • SkilledWar

    5 months ago

    I do spend money on the event boxes, but the part I don't like is that you could spend $100 and not get the skin you wanted and then its gone for a year. Between that and the fact they make them 3000 gold per skin I do think it's a little unfair.

  • IpBlood FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold David

    5 months ago

    I don't care if I have to pay 100$ I want a whiteboy Genji skin that has him in a pastel romper that throws fidget spinners 

  • cobiwankenobi

    5 months ago

    Racsan is just Nascar backwards......i need to re-evaluate everything...

    • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Race car is Race Car

  • Rubix444 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    sub second response time is great except for every multi-player game. Stream sniping is a big problem still, but getting better with twitch giving the streamer the ability to delay the stream. There is a problem with people griefing others who stream consistently.

  • Wulfram FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    The ideal way to do it is like Titanfall 2. All important content like maps, new weapons, new titans and gamemodes are all free, but cosmetics are purchasable and there's no RNG bullshit involved. If you want a certain camo, you just pay $3 and get the entire camo pack. If you want the new Prime Tone skin, you pay $5 and get it. You dont have to pay money for a chance to get the thing you want, you just pay money for the thing.

    • Wulfram FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      And as far as making Overwatch's system better, just let us be able to buy coins. $10 to buy 3000 coins to buy one legendary want. You could still buy 11 lootboxes instead and hope to get more things, but I just hate not having the option of getting what I want right out. RNG is the worst part about it.

  • nicholashaynes1 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Hell yea Utah camping is the shit! (Native Utahn)

  • Axiom_Bias FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I'm pretty sure all the anniversary loot can be unlocked with coins, so you can just save and get them later anyway right?


    • Wulfram FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      The only way to get coins is through duplicates and you get a piss poor amount. A duplicate legendary, which costs 1000 coins, only gives 250. A duplicate event legendary, which cost 3000 coins, still only gives 250. Also, all event items are triple the price to unlock with coins. And then when the event is over, you cant buy them, you have to wait until the next year to have the option to get them. It's a really, really shitty system that promotes buying as many loot boxes as you can or playing until you're exhausted of the game to have a chance that you might get what you want.

    • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      If i could spend $5/$10/$20/$50/$100+ and get coins then SURE i'd be all for it, but Wulfram has made the point so read his thing.

  • SeronWhite FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I just spent an hour writing a whole story about feeling left out by FunHaus and the community, and how I felt entitled for being a long time fan. How some community members are mentioned so often and others not at all, but then I realized that it doesn't matter and that no one in the community would give a shit and that neither do I.


    Instead I just want to say, I'm a huge fan, have been for years, and please keep up the amazing content. 

  • devilito666 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Hi, Lawrence what's your drink of choice you got there.

  • Kinky44 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Candyman

    5 months ago

    For me, its not frustrating that the skins are limited time or that they cost real money.  Im fine paying for something I like, even purely cosmetic things.  HOWEVER, I HATE how there is no option to just buy the skins with currency or buy currency with money.  The RNG crates on LIMITED time items is bullshit.  You want my money? Give me the option to get exactly what I want from the available options and you can HAVE my money.

    • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      you sir, have made my point! i agree!

  • Ben_Rieger FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Adam "it lives and dies around" Kovic

  • Chewbarca FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I'm big into Rainbow 6 Siege and play with my friends at least twice a week. I like what they did with the game in that in-game currency is used on new operators (which you usually own all the base ones by the time you hit level 20), attachments, and cosmetic items. They're are a couple items you have to buy with real money if you want them, and i'll admit the new operators are highly priced at 25,000 each, which is a lot if you plan on saving up and not getting the season pass. But there is a very rewarding feeling from saving your renown (currency) up over a month of playing and getting a nice bundle of items for a character, which you actually play. You feel a sense of accomplishment when unlocking a new headgear piece and weapon camo/ weapon charm. It's also nice to have the option to buy silver with real money, which you can use to buy almost all cosmetic items that you don't feel like saving up for. My friend saved up 90,000 renown over like 3-4 months and bought the diamond weapon camo, which you can't buy with real money, just to show of in-game.

  • abi-juice FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    This was my first dude soup and i'm souper glad i watched/listened.

  • greywarden1984 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Music is Life...

    5 months ago

    I try to buy 100-200 loot boxes each event and still don't get every item from them but usually enough gold to get the things I am lacking. I don't mind supporting the game. I'm just glad hanzo has a new leg skin finally just disappointed the dragons are generic and not changed.

    • RedFred238 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold RedFred238

      5 months ago

      Thank you, now I don't feel as bad for buying a 100 loot boxes every event :)

  • whatdajay FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold True King in the North

    5 months ago

    My only issue with the loot in Overwatch is that since Eichenwalde we have not gained any kind of cosmetics that aren't tied to a limited event. With the anniversary every hero got a dance emote, but all of that will be locked out in three weeks. It just seems like a harsh imbalance to never give players things to unlock outside of events. 


    If the anniversary skins and emotes we're just new cosmetics you could get at anytime that'd be great. It would even fit better with the overall theme of celebrating the game and players that the Anniversary event is going for. 

  • RedFred238 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold RedFred238

    5 months ago

    Wow, Adam actually predicted that Blizzard would reply to the loot box thing.

  • SkelterBandit FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Riot does the same thing with the paragraphs and the numbers. I don't think its new or unique. I am pretty sure that Warframe does the same and so does Path of Exile.

  • Thiry FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I've got two points to make on this, full disclosure I'm 18 and only about 10 minutes into the podcast at the time of me writing this. One, on the subject of the loot boxes, as someone who never got into big mmo's like Overwatch and CS:GO, what is the draw of skins? It outright does not make sense to me why its such a hot topic and center of debate and scandal, I see how they can be appealing, but not to the extent that they've grown. Two, despite being young enough to have grown up exclusively in the Steam era, I am astounded that games are still only $60 dollars. That has been the steady price of games since before my time and now you're getting games that are unbelievably more advanced, go and look at Spear of Destiny then look at The New Order, the difference is completely absurd, Im actually happy that with the "gold" releases I can give Devs more for the work they put in, many of these games should cost way more than they do. That being said, I do miss the games where you could unlock most cosmetic aspects through rigorous play and completionism, but oh well, in the end, its only a game, to distract us from the fact that if we want that new outfit in real life, it's gonna cost way the fuck more than $1.99 or what have you. 

    • Maple6029 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Hopefully I am able to give you an answer to why skins are so popular or even a thing in the first place, having played League of Legends and buying their own skins as well. Games that include cosmetics changes or skins usually expect players to play their games longer than your average single-player, 10 to 20 hour experience. This includes games like CSGO, Overwatch, League of Legends, or any other MMO/MOBA/multiplayer game where players can spend hundreds of hours playing the game and can still have the feeling of wanting to play more, either to get better or for the fun that the game itself can offer. Skins are an option for the people who feel like they want something "extra" for the character/hero/object that they have grown to "use" so often. To give an analogy, think of a person who owns a car and has been driving the same model for a couple of years; that person who has gotten attached to the car wants to make the car better so that it can last longer which means that the person can drive in it longer as well. Although they know it cost money to get the parts to make it better and maybe buying another model would be a better solution, the person's attachment to the "original" vehicle makes them want to put in the effort to change it and make it better. In addition, usually these skins are made to be better than the original, where additional particle effect, voice lines, animations, etc. makes the character you've been playing much different than it was before (varies from case to case); which is how companies get people to spend more money on the game even after they pay full price or even if the game is outright free, because the cosmetic change is so appealing for the they say to themselves, "I have to get that". Overall, games that include these cosmetic changes generally have players that spend so much time on the game itself, 100's-1,000's hours, that they are willing to spend money on something that makes the game experience fresh, different, or "better.


      -That's my take on the idea and popularity of skins, hopefully I was able to clear some confusion and answer your question to a certain degree.

    • 20miles

      5 months ago

      To answer your second question about games staying the same price is because of strategies like loot boxes and DLC. it used to be if devs wanted extra money they would release content and the gamer would pay for it but now it's not enough money so they tried season passes which was good for a while but now again it's not enough for some. So now he we are instead of dropping full paid DLC content they drop maybe a free map and character but make the cosmetic dlc that has always come with the maps and character when paid for is now "free" but really what they did was create a system of adding content to prexisting content locked out to a paywall that you can theoretically get for "free" by playing the game but practically its impossible. So now they add "free" content to the already "free loot" and people will gladly pay upwards of hundreds to thousands of dollars at a CHANCE to get this content that 10 years ago would have come with the the map and characters for like $15.

  • woard FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I hate RNG loot, and i really don't like the "exclusive" digital items, I think they should stay available permanently and it would be nice if you could buy them with the in game currency. I don't mind micro transactions or DLC as long as you are getting your moneys worth out of it, and as long as it's not required.  Now I do think we can all agree on one thing, Forbes doesn't know shit about games and should really just stop lol. Also no dupes would be nice along with what James was saying.

  • peckpogydah Peckpogydah

    5 months ago

    Wow, this weeks Hard Nettin'... Wow.

  • Antimattergizmo FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Rarely is a player that wants all skins not willing to put out some cash and probably has in the past events. And for those that aren't collection hounds, that calculation doesn't work for people that focus on 3 or so heroes. Sure there's a chance not to get the one you want, but it's exponentially greater than the chances of getting every skin.


    At the end of the day, this business model is in every way better than implementations that have exclusive weapons or other bonuses that give an unfair advantage. Looking like a sexy demon nurse is only going to help your team by distracting the preteens while they try to die,die,die you.

    • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      If i give them $60 (bonus to buying the game) there should be an "RP" riot points, Model to enable me to skip the RNG and just get the 1 or 2 things i want. but to most of ur point i agree.

  • sakurastar FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    I've never heard of Victoria day before, (I'm English), a quick googling showed me it's only celebrated in Canada and Scotland, does anyone know why we don't celebrate it in England? I'm genuinely curious. 

    • Kr1sp FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      From my quick googling I found you have a Spring bank holiday around the same time as us, which seems like the same thing without an official name. Really Victoria day is just an excuse to drink beer and do fire works. My guess is we need a May Holiday and named it after the Queen as a nice gesture.

    • sakurastar FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Kr1sp lol, fair enough, I can't fault you for wanting more holidays, we seem to have a lot of them. We did just have a bank holiday weekend but that was for Whitsun which is a Christian holiday. We don't tend to celebrate past monarchs much in general though so I suppose it's par for the course, it tends to be more religious days and remembrance days. 

    • meganmaz FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      Victoria Day isn't even on the same day as Memorial Day or....Spring Bank Holiday... It was last week. It would be nice if it was on the same day, as then I could have hung out online with my American buddies :(

  • Kr1sp FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    5 months ago

    Thing about the Overwatch Loot system is even buying loot boxes isn't going to get you much because they added a lot of common voice lines and player icons for every character this event, and you're only guaranteed one event item per box, and everyone just wants the dance emotes but there's one per character so getting the ones you want is going to come down to using currency. I don't really care, because the odds are so low I've decided to not buy anything this event because I probably won't get whatever I want so I'm with James on this, cosmetics don't matter, but if paying for a loot box guaranteed you two event unlocks instead of one I might actually hand over my money instead of getting a bunch of white duplicates worth 5C after using real money.


    Problem is everyone just wants to complain to Blizzard while they throw more money at them.

    • peckpogydah Peckpogydah

      5 months ago

      Wait, can you not buy the skins you want straight out? You can in Hero's, I just assumed you could in OW.

    • Kr1sp FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      You can buy skins with currency, which has to be collected by getting a fraction of the worth for every duplicate you get. So if you have a legendary and get the same one 4 more times, like James mentioned, you can buy any other legendary you want. Which might be fine except event items cost 3x as much but get the same value as regular items if you get event duplicates, which can be frustrating to get in general.

    • Zakill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      5 months ago

      and that's the issue. You cant just buy what you want, you have to play the Loot Box Lotto.

  • peckpogydah Peckpogydah

    5 months ago

    I have never understood the want to buy cosmetic items. I do understand earning them. I loved it when I was able to sport all of the 25man raid tier items in WoW. That was so I could show off my E-peen, not the size of my wallet.

  • beedle246 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Don't be Cody Be Haggar

    5 months ago

    I have a feeling that i've seen that pose in the thumbnail somewhere before?